Former Northwestern President Morton Schapiro may be spending most of his time in Southern California, but he said he still keeps up with the University — including the women’s lacrosse team’s run to the NCAA Tournament’s Final Four.
Known as Morty to most, Schapiro was a familiar face to students during his presidency from 2009-22, often appearing at events and gatherings around campus.
With Schapiro at the helm, NU broke into the top 10 ranked universities in the country, and annual research funding increased 86%.
But NU’s 16th president faced backlash at the end of his tenure over his handling of protests to abolish University police in Fall Quarter 2020.
Schapiro made national headlines when he withdrew as Georgetown University Law Center’s commencement speaker May 6.
Following the school’s announcement of Schapiro as speaker in late April, students launched a petition condemning the decision due to factors including Schapiro’s published opinion essays on Israel and Palestine after Oct. 7, 2023, according to The Georgetown Voice.
Days before the Board of Trustees announced Mung Chiang as NU’s 18th president, The Daily spoke with Schapiro over the phone Friday about his presidency, his decision to withdraw as Georgetown Law’s commencement speaker and his advice for the University’s next president.
This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
The Daily: Why was it important to you to be a visible face on campus?
Schapiro: I think some of it’s selfish. Presidents have different styles, but I like, ‘Call me Morty.’ Two things I really miss are one, teaching my course with (Slavic languages and literatures Prof. Gary Saul Morson), and the other one was every day, I would take an hour walk around campus just to see people. I walked by myself, usually right after lunch, and I just walked along the lakefront.
I knew a lot of people on the staff, a lot of people on the faculty. I knew a lot of students. I would see the admissions tours, and I’d walk behind them, and finally the tour guide would say, ‘Hey, that’s our president. That’s Morty,’ and I’d wave to everybody. I miss my daily walk around campus, just greeting people. I know some people were thinking maybe there’s a better way to allocate my time, but I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s selfish or not. But I loved doing that.
The Daily: NU has gone through quite a bit in the past couple of years from the federal funding freeze to the deal, presidential transitions and everything in between. What has it been like to watch that from afar?
Schapiro: I’ve only really been to campus — we did a celebration for Saul a couple years ago. I’ve been back when (former President Michael Schill) was — in his induction, I came back for that. The 10-year anniversary of the gift that created the Buffett Institute (for Global Affairs), I was there. I’ve been gone now coming on four years, and I’ve been back maybe three times.
It’s been hard on many campuses, and when you look at the merry-go-round of presidents and chancellors within the Big Ten — I don’t know. I was privileged to chair the (Council) of Presidents/Chancellors at the Big Ten for several years … But when I look at the names of the people who are now presidents of the Big Ten colleges and universities, now 18, there’s almost nobody with whom I served. They’re all gone. In a number of cases, the people who succeeded them are gone. There’s a lot of turnover. It’s kind of fraught.
When I first became a president 26 years ago, the average term then was about maybe seven-and-a-half-years. Now it’s down to five-and-a-half-years, or something like that. There have been a number of presidencies that didn’t last five years, and that’s tough. That’s tough on a university. Everybody knows it’s tough on fundraising, but in addition to that, you want to have long terms. I was fortunate. I did quite a long term, 13-and-a-half-years, and (interim President Henry Bienen), before me, did 14 and a half, and before that, (former President Arnold Weber) did nine and a half. You hope to have presidencies that last a decade or more, but that’s really unusual these days in American higher education. They just go through president after president.
The Daily: Why do you think that is?
Schapiro: I don’t know. Some of it’s unrealistic expectations from board members. You mentioned it’s been crisis after crisis. Some presidents, who I know, would be great if they served during easier times. It’s hard during a crisis. You make a bad call, it could be the end of your presidency. We had a number of crises during my 22-and-a-half years as president, but maybe I managed to survive. Maybe the world wasn’t so angry. Maybe the stakes weren’t quite so high. But it’s hard, and you still have friends who are presidents. Not so much in the Big Ten anymore, since they’re all gone, but in other places, and I commiserate with them. It’s really difficult to be a president these days, more difficult than it was when I was a president.
The Daily: Why did you decide to step away from NU?
Schapiro: Thirteen-and-a-half years — it was going to be 13, but the extra couple months was when (former President-elect Rebecca Blank) got sick before Mike showed — that was always my idea. I got a five-year contract, and they gave me another five to make it 10, and they offered me a third five to make it 15. I said, ‘No, let’s just make it three,’ which is what we did. I just thought that 13 years is a really good run, especially given again the average term now.
I had been a president nine years before that and a dean six years before that, so I thought it was a good time at my age and experience. It was also really predetermined a long time before that I was going to leave in 2022 because I was in year seven when I got the extra three years. The idea was, ‘We know that in six years I am definitely leaving,’ so it gave people a lot of time to prepare, including me.
The Daily: What’s your relationship like with President Schill and President Bienen?
Schapiro: I’ve always liked Mike. When we go to the Association of American Universities, they sit the presidents of the schools alphabetically, and we’re both S-C-Hs, so I sat next to him when he was at (the University of) Oregon. I knew him as a dean at the University of Chicago, and then I got to know him better at Oregon.
Henry, I’ve known much longer and better. My mentor is a guy named Bill Bowen, who was president of Princeton (University) for many, many years. Bill, for some inexplicable reason, sort of adopted me as a protege — this is back in the ’80s — and had a tremendous impact on my life, but he also had a tremendous impact on Henry’s life. Henry was dean of what was called Woodrow Wilson School (of Public and International Affairs) at the time at Princeton, and he was very, very close to Bill. It was Bill who suggested Henry to be president at Northwestern, and it was Bill who suggested me to be his successor. Bill called me up and said, ‘You know, my friend Henry has done a great job, and I really think you should be the next one.’ It was his idea, I think, for both Henry and for me. So we have that connection through the great Bill Bowen.
The Daily: You recently withdrew as Georgetown Law’s commencement speaker. How are you feeling about what happened?
Schapiro: Oh, you know, it’s fine. These things happen. People wanted to see my speech, if it was political about protests and about Hamas and all that, so it’s published. I’m a columnist for the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles, which is a wonderful weekly publication. I just got the new one, and there I am on the cover. ‘The Speech I Won’t Give at Georgetown Law’ by Morton Schapiro, says the cover this week. So log on, you can see the speech. It was about humility and gratitude.
I would never plan to say anything controversial. I don’t know what to say. I’ve gotten a lot of honorary degrees. I’ve spoken at a lot of commencements over the years. I only did this sort of as a favor because it was a former student of mine who’s the interim dean, and he invited me, and I’m longtime friends with the former president of Georgetown, and I’ve always admired religious institutions as a person of faith. …
Agreed to do it, didn’t work out. It’s another day. I wasn’t going to publish the talk, but I did write the talk because they wanted it in advance, so I had it anyway. A number of people, they wanted me to write op-eds and all the big national things, and appear on Fox News, and appear on Jake Tapper and this and that. I said no to everything. The only thing I did was I gave the talk to the Jewish Journal.
The Daily: What advice would you give to the next NU president?
Schapiro: Find a way to enjoy the job. One reason why there’s been this merry-go-round turning over presidents is they seem to be miserable. I would go to these AAU meetings with the research universities. … In the beginning, I was a couple years in. Next thing I knew, I had completed 20 years as a president. People look at me and go, ‘My God, I don’t know how I can make five. I’m so miserable. Why did I ever leave the faculty?’ And I’d always say, ‘Look, you’re the president. Make decisions. If you really love your undergraduate teaching, teach.’ And they said, ‘I don’t have time.’ I said, ‘Who tells you that? You’re the president. Act that way.’ ‘I miss the publishing.’ ‘Well, publish.’
Was it good for me to attend every athletic event for all those years? Was that really part of my job there? Did I really need to? I loved it. I had so much fun. Every day, there was a sporting event. I’d say, I’ll get through this meeting, I’ll give this talk, I’ll do this, but then I got sports. I also love — as does Henry — I love music, pretty good classical music. We’re so lucky to have the Bienen School of Music there, and I love going to concerts. As a person of faith, I was always invited over to Sheil (Catholic Center) to give a homily to the Catholics, or to the episcopal center as well as, of course, Hillel. And I loved doing that. I loved having dinner with people. A lot of student groups, students who lived off campus, they would invite me for dinner, and I would do that regularly. I never turned down an opportunity at a fraternity or sorority when they invited me to dinner, and I always went to them.
But I really loved — on the sidelines of all the athletic events — I loved going down to all those football games. I went to home and away games. Hardly ever missed any of them, and I was always on the sidelines, standing next to the coach. And God, did I have fun doing that.
So, that’s my lesson: Have fun. Figure out something that you really enjoy and do it. If somebody tells you you can’t do it, you tell them, ‘I’m the president. I’ll tell you what I can do and not do.’
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